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 Effects Loop vs Floor Pedal for Chorus? 
WhiteRam
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Hey guys, I've played straight in for 25 years, been thinking about adding a chorus. My question is if I were to A/B a pro chorus pedal such as (i.e.) an Analogman or Diamond going into the amp input, in comparison to a very lush expensive (i.e.) Lexicon running in the loop. . . would I hands down realize a rack mount in the loop way out-classes a pedal on the floor going into the amp input?

Appreciate all responses, tone and application are most important to me, so even though the pedal on the floor would be simpler and cost effective, I would by all means go rack if that is where the purist of beauty lies when using chorus/phaser/flanger/reverb.

WR

Ps - I know tone is in the beholder and subjective, but want to realize here that I'm not a punk or thrash musician, I am into beauty even when I play metal, so give me what you can on signal to noise comparison, playing response, etc. Thanks. Smile
  
crs45
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I've generally found that all time/modulation fx are better through the loop. Although a pedal should work fine if you're talking about using it exclusively on the clean channel. But with any gain stage, you're over powering the pedal's impact. I have an amp with no fx loop and it takes pedals with no problem through the front of the amp.

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iggs
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I actually like ALL modulation effects before the amp or dirt pedals for that matter, I just like the way it sounds better. If placed after pre-amp gain or dirt pedals, it sounds too "obvious" ... before it sounds more like a part of the sound.

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TheEmemyWithin
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Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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crs45 wrote:
I've generally found that all time/modulation fx are better through the loop. Although a pedal should work fine if you're talking about using it exclusively on the clean channel. But with any gain stage, you're over powering the pedal's impact.

That's my preference as well. I have a compressor and wah before the amp (both work better pre-distortion, IMO, though with the XTC I use the comp only for cleans), and a flanger, chorus, and delay (G-Major) in the loop.
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pluto
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Joined: 19 May 2007
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iggs wrote:
I actually like ALL modulation effects before the amp or dirt pedals for that matter, I just like the way it sounds better. If placed after pre-amp gain or dirt pedals, it sounds too "obvious" ... before it sounds more like a part of the sound.


I think I'm half-half. To me, chorus sounds good only post distortion, while I much prefer flanger and phase type effects (phaser, vibe, etc.) before distortion. It's interesting how everybody hears things differently.
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 Re: Effects Loop vs Floor Pedal for Chorus? 
pluto
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Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 185
Location: Hawaii
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WhiteRam wrote:
Hey guys, I've played straight in for 25 years, been thinking about adding a chorus. My question is if I were to A/B a pro chorus pedal such as (i.e.) an Analogman or Diamond going into the amp input, in comparison to a very lush expensive (i.e.) Lexicon running in the loop. . . would I hands down realize a rack mount in the loop way out-classes a pedal on the floor going into the amp input?

Appreciate all responses, tone and application are most important to me, so even though the pedal on the floor would be simpler and cost effective, I would by all means go rack if that is where the purist of beauty lies when using chorus/phaser/flanger/reverb.

WR

Ps - I know tone is in the beholder and subjective, but want to realize here that I'm not a punk or thrash musician, I am into beauty even when I play metal, so give me what you can on signal to noise comparison, playing response, etc. Thanks. Smile


As crs45 said, it'll depend on how you use chorus. If you use chorus for cleans only, it won't matter too much if you're using pedals or a rack. That being said, I personally prefer pedals over rack for clean chorus, because I really like the lo-fi, huge warble, type choruses like Electro Harmonix and the standard Analogman. I've yet to hear any rack fx that can nail that type of chorus. As for using pedals in the loop, some great chorus pedals can go there (e.g. I've used the Analogman with the 12 volt adapter, Digitech Hardwire Chorus, TC Electronic SCF with good results in my XTC loop and I believe the eventide mod factor will work there too), but it's hard to beat a great rack unit in the loop.
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WhiteRam
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Wow, you guys are really great to chime in with all the real world down to earth info, thank you! Very Happy

Well, I would be using it for some clean, but mostly with some amount of gain going on (i.e. - the complete/full range of the blue channel). It looks like I need to get both and give it go! Oh my, I figured that might be, but this is good too.

I can do a decent Lexicon for a good price to give me a feel for the loop, and an Analogman for that feel, and then we'll take it from there. Smile

Cheers! I'll post back up in about 10 days to let the thread know how things worked out.

WR
  
supersonic
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Joined: 23 Nov 2008
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I had a Lexicon PCM for a couple of years, did not like it at all in the loop of any amp. I'm using pedals now and loving them. Oh, I run chorus, reveb and delay in the loop.
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WhiteRam
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supersonic wrote:
I had a Lexicon PCM for a couple of years, did not like it at all in the loop of any amp. I'm using pedals now and loving them. Oh, I run chorus, reveb and delay in the loop.


Hmm, the Lexicon PCM 81 & 91 are my two favorite processors in the world. When using either of those two in a guitar rig one must use a Y cable on both the inputs and outputs of the PCM, were you doing that? I have an opportunity to try an MX300 before purchase, after comparison this seems the one designed applicable to guitar more than their current others, I will keep an open ear of course.

So you are running about 20' of cable out of the send, through the pedals, and then another 20' feet back to the return? I'll try that too as compared to the Analogman coming straight off the guitar, can't wait to try these different configurations and see what's best for me.

Thanks again guys, Smile

WR
  
supersonic
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Joined: 23 Nov 2008
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WhiteRam wrote:
supersonic wrote:
I had a Lexicon PCM for a couple of years, did not like it at all in the loop of any amp. I'm using pedals now and loving them. Oh, I run chorus, reveb and delay in the loop.


Hmm, the Lexicon PCM 81 & 91 are my two favorite processors in the world. When using either of those two in a guitar rig one must use a Y cable on both the inputs and outputs of the PCM, were you doing that? I have an opportunity to try an MX300 before purchase, after comparison this seems the one designed applicable to guitar more than their current others, I will keep an open ear of course.

So you are running about 20' of cable out of the send, through the pedals, and then another 20' feet back to the return? I'll try that too as compared to the Analogman coming straight off the guitar, can't wait to try these different configurations and see what's best for me.

Thanks again guys, Smile

WR

Yes I used 'Y' plugs. I even switched the loop in and out to compare. The Lexicon always sounded like it had been A/D converted. I am extreemly fussy with tone btw. Yes I'm running cable for the loop but there is so little difference if I A/B the loop on/off you can barely tell, not enough to bother me. I'm running a T-Rex Replica delay and EHX Holy Grail and the sounds are much better for a guitar rig IMO, plus I've got Tap tempo which I could never do on the PCM 81.
The Lexicon effect are very good for a DAW, just not in a guitar rig.
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WhiteRam
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supersonic wrote:
Yes I used 'Y' plugs. I even switched the loop in and out to compare. The Lexicon always sounded like it had been A/D converted. I am extreemly fussy with tone btw. Yes I'm running cable for the loop but there is so little difference if I A/B the loop on/off you can barely tell, not enough to bother me. I'm running a T-Rex Replica delay and EHX Holy Grail and the sounds are much better for a guitar rig IMO, plus I've got Tap tempo which I could never do on the PCM 81.
The Lexicon effect are very good for a DAW, just not in a guitar rig.


Thanks for replying and sharing all that, right on SS.

Ya I'm fussy too, 25 years plugged straight in wasn't done in vain, so I feel ya. Good to know about running the cables that long has no appreciable effect. Smile

WR
  
amiller
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I've got a TC-Electronics G-force. I love it's delays and verbs in the loop BUT I like the Boss chorus MUCH better in front of the amp.
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boof
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In general for me I prefer to have the chorus after the pre amp with a traixis and after the power amp via the line out for the xtc (using a g force). I just put an analog man bi chorus before the preamp tonight and I like it for cleans but for dirt i keep finding myself turning off the analog man and using the chorus in the g force
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WhiteRam
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I ended up liking both (in front and loop) the same, it all depends on various factors and personal tastes like you guys stated.

Not so sure I'm ever going to use any effects though, it hit me why, the effect is in control and I don't feel like it's me when playing through them, the effect never changes or shuts up/off, it doesn't feel natural to me and takes from the true organicness of my heart, I keep saying "f*ck you" to the effect "I didn't convey that."

With that said, my favorite guitar tone of all time is Robin Trower, who we all know uses effects, and I would never want him to change and am extremely glad he uses/used them. So it hit me what's going on, guys like him and you here on the forum. . . are playing into the effect, you all must somehow feel the effect and connect with it or flow with it, you like and or relate from your heart with what it's doing and therefor it never irritates you because you make a connection with it.

At least I know myself a bit better now, this has bothered me for over 25 years, I buy effects and then hate them within 15 minutes. So many of my all time favorite bands/guitarists use effects, I would never want that changed, and that's what leads me back to them, to only hate them all over again. When I am playing, I get lost in another world, and I want that guitar to react to everything I am telling it to do, I want to feel and hear every natural thing about my guitar, every real nuance from every tube, etc, etc.

I love it pure so much, when the right tubes, cab, guitar, pickups, wiring, etc., all come together. . . and that 3D starts to happen, or a natural chorusing appears, or it cries like a cat, or sings like a bird, or growls like a tiger, or screams like a hawk, man I am living with the gods in those moments and feel acceptance in the glory of offering pureness. As the show moves into an hours time, the power tubes running ever so hot as over 500v has been hitting their plates, the telefunken in my phase inverter relentlessly slamming with great authority the entire spectum of frequency and soul that has arrived within it on to the mighty 34's that bask in ecstasy as the tele makes love to them, the sweat pouring from my entire body, the pick fatigueing as demands push past its limits. . . I look down and see a cable coming out of my guitar thats leads somewhere into the darkness, it's just me, the knobs, and switch on my guitar. and we are together, just the two of us. . . I wouldn't give that up for anything.

WR

And I love the freedom of not having to be any certain place at any certain time on stage. . . ever.
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